Hot 88 Civic

[Allie]

88 Honda 4 DR Civic , approx. 150K, auto
I have had this car about 8 mnth.s and never had any problems... About a week ago the engine started running at a much hotter temp., esp. at high speeds. I have been blasting the heater to pull heat from the engine and ignoring it, because I thought it was because the oil was so low. I had the oil changed 2 days ago and then today the heat gauge was way up over the "H" (when I was coming home on the freeway) I blasted the heater but it had no effect, even when I slowed to 25 mph. I think I was hearing some weird cracking (? Im not really sure about this, I had the CD player up and then when I turned it off I didnt hear it again) when I braked right before I reached home. The antifreeze is in between the min and max line, but the oil already is low again (by "low" I mean half between the the two dots on the stick, which I assume are fill and low...but maybe thats just because it had cycled through the engine?) I have been told the car is leaking oil and antifreeze by the shop but it never spots the pavement and has never been a problem except to top the oil off more often. Tonight I moved the car from the driveway to another space (only about 100 feet) and I noticed even the inside reeked of oil. I dont know a ton about cars but I was wondering of there was anything basic I could check before taking to the shop... Also, is it a horribly bad idea to try and drive it to the shop or should I have it towed (prob. about 3-5 miles)? Is there anything I should watch for as far as being scammed/ work I could do myself once the repair guys let me know whats wrong...?

[Venturi]

Hi Allie, welcome to the site.

One of the first things I recommend that you do is to check the actual coolant (antifreeze) level in the radiator by removing the radiator cap. This is because the actual coolant level in the radiator maybe too low, even if the coolant level in the reserve tank is OK. Sometimes the cooling system is unable to pull the coolant from the reserve tank into the radiator especially if there is a leak in the cooling system. Caution: remove the radiator cap when the engine is cold only; never remove the radiator cap on a hot engine.

If the oil level is between the two dots on the dipstick the level is OK at the moment. The dots represent the minimum and maximum oil levels. But keep a close eye on the level since you were told that the engine is leaking oil.

Did the shop that changed the oil actually find coolant and oil leaks or did they just note low fluid levels?

There are a lot of things that can cause an engine to overheat such as a thermostat which is stuck closed, an inoperative cooling fan, a restricted radiator, coolant leaks, ect. Since you’ve been told of a coolant leak you need to get this checked and repaired as necessary. The leak may not be the actual cause of the overheating but the coolant system must remain sealed in order to work properly and any leaks in the system will make finding the actual problem much more difficult.

I don’t know how quickly the engine overheats but if you feel that you can drive the car to the shop without it overheating you should be OK. Otherwise you should have it towed to avoid possible engine damage.

If there is a legitimate reason why you’re worried about being “scammed” by this shop you should find another shop to deal with. Otherwise don’t automatically assume the shop is “out to get you”. If you find yourself doubting or are suspicious the shops diagnosis feel free to ask us about their findings. Of course we can’t actually check the car out but we should be able tell if their diagnosis sounds reasonable or not.

As far as what repairs you can or can not do yourself that’s very difficult for us to say. Once you find out what the problem(s) are you can post them here and we should be able to tell you what the repairs involve. That way you can decide if it’s something you want to tackle yourself or not.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have and please keep us up-dated.

Venturi

[Allie]

I am going to check the antifreeze level right now... I had to drive the car a short distance today and I noticed when it started warming up and I turned on the heater to counteract it the heater only blew cold air... was wondering if this says anything? Also, I must have been high yesterday, because the car doesnt smell of oil now, and there is no cracking upon braking.

[Allie]

...and can you recommend any shops in the Beaverton/Tigard area?

[Venturi]

If you had only cool air coming from the heater after the engine was warmed up some possible causes are low coolant level, an air pocket in the cooling system or a lack of proper coolant flow.

The oil smell you noticed yesterday may have been a combination of the oil leak(s) and the excessive engine temperature. If there is any oil residue on the engine or exhaust system it may have been heated to the point that it created an odor. After the engine cooled and the car sat a while the odor probably dissipated. Chances are if the engine is overheated again the oil smell will return.
I’m not sure about the cracking noise, I’d really have to hear it to determine the cause. It may have been caused by metal parts like the exhaust system expanding and contracting slightly due to the excessive heat but that’s just a guess.

I take it you’re in Oregon. No, I don’t know any shops that I can personally recommend in that area but I can suggest that you speak to friends, neighbors, relatives and co-workers in the area whose options you trust. They may be able to recommend a shop or shops that they’ve had positive experiences with in the past. Just remember that although price is an important consideration you shouldn’t let it be the deciding factor when choosing a shop. The “cheapie” repair shops usually have inexperienced employees which may lead to misdiagnosis or improper repairs which can cost you more in the long run.

[re-tired]

In addition to the above advise I would do a check of your chosen shop with the local BBB. Also try to use shops with certified techs.

[Allie]

Hey guys, just wanted to thank you for everything, I ended up taking the car back to the guy I bought it from and he replaced the thermostat (I guess it was stuck) and also pressure checked the radiator, and I guess looked at a couple other things under the hood... I paid $85 for that... think thats reasonable? Also he told me he thinks I should come back in a week or so and Have the timing belt replaced (it is 5 yr.s old, but I do a lot of city driving). He said that as long as he is doing that he will also put in a new water pump... He want $280 for all that, but I am not having any more problems w/ the car... what do you think?

[Venturi]

Hi Allie, I’m glad that you got the problem repaired.

$85 for a thermostat is reasonable considering he pressure checked the system and did an overall inspection too. I take it that he found no coolant or serious oil leaks?

$280 is a good price for a timing belt and water pump job. And I agree the water pump should be done at the same time as the T-belt. You might also ask him to check and replace if needed the crankshaft and camshaft oil seals. This might add another $50 or so to the bill but it would much cheaper to do them at the same time as the timing belt rather than later if they should happen to start leaking. I usually include these seals when pricing a timing belt job on a Honda because they so are prone to leaking.

It sounds like you’re getting things squared away and I’m glad we were able to help you. If you have any more questions don’t hesitate to ask, that’s why we’re here.

Thanks for keeping us updated,
Venturi

[Allie]

hello again guys...
i just had the timing belt and water pump changed on my car (mechanic said the crankshaft and camshaft seals were fine... but thanks for the advice, made me seem more knowledgable) about three weeks ago. Yesterday the car was running fine and then suddenly as i got home i realized it was smoking from under the hood. I pulled over and when i opened the hood there seemed to be antifreeze everywhere, esp. in the back L area of the engine. I let the car sit overnight, and while it left a little puddle of coolant on the ground where i originally stopped, i pushed it a few hundred yards away to park and there is nothing on the ground under it now. I think this is maybe due to the fact that it seems to be completly out of coolant now (reserve tank is empty and radiator looked to be too)... My knee jerk reaction is just to give it more antifreeze and see if i can spot the leak? Also, the mechanic i took it to last time (also guy i bought the car from) has seemed pretty trustworthy so far, but three weeks ago he told me the car looked good and next thing i should need would be an axle maybe three months down the line. Is this just something that happens.. cars break down... or should i take my mechanic down a notch on the old list-of-trustworthy-folks because he should have seen this coming if he knows what hes doing?

[Venturi]

Hi Allie,
I think the first thing you should do is add some coolant and try to locate the source of the leak. It may be something like a heater hose that just gave out. I really can’t say if this is something your mechanic should have seen coming or not especially since at this point I don’t know what the problem is.
Unfortunately mechanics don’t have a sixth sense or psychic abilities that allow us to know exactly how long a given part or component will last. Things aren’t always cut and dry, good or bad. We have to rely on our experience and best judgment when inspecting a vehicle for possible future problems. Regrettably sometimes this can leave a lot of room for error. We also have to be careful when recommending repairs to items that in our mind may be near or at the end of their expected lifespan. If we recommend every repair that we feel is legitimate most customers would be suspicious and assume that we’re trying to add unneeded services or “pad the bill” and we come off looking like the bad guy. On the other hand if we don’t recommend a repair and that component or part fails causing the vehicle owner an inconvenience we’re that bad guy again. This where the judgment calls come into play and as I said there is a lot room for error especially when you’re talking about a high mileage or older vehicle.

So at this point I wouldn’t let this incident change your opinion of your mechanic unless you can determine that this was a result of neglect or incompetence.

Let us know what you find out,
Venturi

[Allie]

hey guys.
just want to say thanx for all your help so far!!! i located the leak (it was a radiator hose) and was able to fix it myself. now the RPMs are bouncing when i am stopped and sometimes when i idle the car just dies altogether. starting out it is a little rough too (i tyhink maybe the tranny? seems like first gear is starting to go...) i am getting ready to pay for another six months of car insurance and i am wondering if i should trade the car in and then get something a little newer... i could prob. only afford like $600 tops and i think i can get a grand for the car i have now if i sell it myself, but i will prob. have to trade it in because i cant be w/o a car and i dont want to sell it to some unsuspecting doof only to have it break down on them in a month (karma... ya' know?) anywayz... if you have any tips for me, i would love some advice...

[Venturi]

Hi Allie, glad to hear you were able to find and repair the coolant leak.
On the idle problem, make sure that the engine coolant is full and that the air has been bled out. Sometimes air can get trapped in the cooling system which can cause Hondas to have erratic idle speeds. On the thermostat housing behind the distributor there should be a cooling system bleeder valve. With the engine cool and off, open the bleeder screw a couple of turns and fill the radiator as need until a steady stream of coolant comes out of the bleeder. Close the bleeder, start the car and add coolant to the radiator as need until the engine is fully warmed up (the cooling fan should come on at least twice), replace the radiator cap and top off the reservoir if needed. I’ve included a diagram of the bleeder location if needed.


Give that a try, if it doesn’t help or there was no air in the system let us know.

If you’re facing a potential transmission problem you may need to bail out and find another car but I don’t know what $1600 will get you in your area, around here it wouldn’t be much of a car at all.
Have you checked the trans fluid or talked to your mechanic about the problem? Maybe it’s not as bad as you think.

[allie]

hey again guys...
heres the ltest...
car is leaking oil (im not sure about anything, just seeing spots on the driveway)
and also possibly burning oil (the muffler is putting out some grayish smoke, think: way more than the usual amount, trees dying as i drive by)
anything i can do myself before i take her in?
love ya'
allie

[Venturi]

Hi Allie,
First be sure that the oil level is not over full, this can cause both of these problems.

The best thing to do is to look the engine over to see if you can locate any external oil leaks. The spots on the driveway may be from something minor like a leaking oil drain plug seal.

If the engine is burning a lot of oil you’ll need to take it in to find out why. Excessive oil burning is usually caused by internal engine problems like worn or damaged piston rings and/or worn valve guides or valve guide seals. Tests can be done to determine the cause of the oil burning and what needs to be done to correct the problem. Unfortunately these types of repairs can get very expensive if internal engine repairs are necessary.


Did the oil burning just start all of a sudden or has it been gradually getting worse?

Did you get the idle problem straitened out?
Did you find anything out about the transmission?

[way2old]

Check the PCV valve also. If it is plugged it can cause oil to be forced out of seals.